Comments for Good Bits http://janegoodman.com/wordpress Life as a councilwoman and environmentalist in northeast Ohio Fri, 14 Jan 2011 15:16:43 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.3 Comment on Oakwood Club to Oakwood Commons by Jane http://janegoodman.com/wordpress/?p=83&cpage=1#comment-909 Jane Fri, 14 Jan 2011 15:16:43 +0000 http://janegoodman.com/wordpress/?p=83#comment-909 Dear jondoe, I am, in fact, an environmental educator by profession, work for the Cuyahoga River Remedial Action Plan, and have written two books on the subject of land use and watersheds, and so I come to this with some understanding of the situation. I'm also a former golfer. I am sure that there are golf course managers out there who try to use good practices, but the fact is that a major and very serious cause of organic pollution in Lake Erie is nonpoint source runoff of nutrients (fertilizers) from grass. Rain runs off because it doesn't filter down, carrying with it fertilizers and pesticides, and that's what makes it comparable to a parking lot. 1. Turf grass, whether the varieties used for fairways or greens, is not native to North America, so no resident wildlife benefits from its presence and it requires irrigation since its roots are shallow and it neither stores more water than is evaporated daily through its blades nor directs water down into the soil where it can infiltrate and be stored; 2. In order to keep the ways green you have to fertilize the grass. We both know that most courses save money by feeding the blades and not by spreading and combing in acres' worth of organic compost to feed the roots. There's just no way to get that rich, green turf that country clubs require without heavy doses of nitrogen, or strong plant tissue without phosphorus, and those are the two biggest nutrient problems in Lake Erie at the moment. Much of that nutrient pollution is coming from excess fertilizers running off the surface into streams. Look at the edges of Oakwood's stream segments of Nine Mile Creek and you see that's the case. 3. Fairways and greens are monocultures, and there's just no way to keep those weed-free without using herbicides. I don't know about your course or your practices, but here, and at Oakwood, that is the case. We know this by sampling the water flowing off the property and through Nine Mile Creek. New, eco-conscious practices are gaining ground but progress is slow and habits die hard. 4. For various reasons (making it easier to get the ball out of the stream?) managers mow grass to the edge of streams, which promotes erosion and sedimentation, which is absolutely the worst thing you can do for stream health and is also a serious ecological problem in this watershed. This is why riparian setbacks and plantings are required in most communities' building codes (including ours, now) as non-structural Best Management Practices (BMPs) for stormwater management and water quality. 5. Finally, the infiltration rate of golf course turf is only slightly higher than that of concrete. Both absorb small amounts of precipitation but do not allow much infiltration. Frequent shallow watering makes shallow roots and hard subsoils. Period. I wish it weren't the case, and I know that many many golf course owners and clubs do their best to modernize their practices and to make their courses healthy pieces of the environment. But not enough are able to do so, either because of the additional expense or the American love of perfect turf. Dear jondoe,
I am, in fact, an environmental educator by profession, work for the Cuyahoga River Remedial Action Plan, and have written two books on the subject of land use and watersheds, and so I come to this with some understanding of the situation. I’m also a former golfer. I am sure that there are golf course managers out there who try to use good practices, but the fact is that a major and very serious cause of organic pollution in Lake Erie is nonpoint source runoff of nutrients (fertilizers) from grass. Rain runs off because it doesn’t filter down, carrying with it fertilizers and pesticides, and that’s what makes it comparable to a parking lot.
1. Turf grass, whether the varieties used for fairways or greens, is not native to North America, so no resident wildlife benefits from its presence and it requires irrigation since its roots are shallow and it neither stores more water than is evaporated daily through its blades nor directs water down into the soil where it can infiltrate and be stored;
2. In order to keep the ways green you have to fertilize the grass. We both know that most courses save money by feeding the blades and not by spreading and combing in acres’ worth of organic compost to feed the roots. There’s just no way to get that rich, green turf that country clubs require without heavy doses of nitrogen, or strong plant tissue without phosphorus, and those are the two biggest nutrient problems in Lake Erie at the moment. Much of that nutrient pollution is coming from excess fertilizers running off the surface into streams. Look at the edges of Oakwood’s stream segments of Nine Mile Creek and you see that’s the case.
3. Fairways and greens are monocultures, and there’s just no way to keep those weed-free without using herbicides. I don’t know about your course or your practices, but here, and at Oakwood, that is the case. We know this by sampling the water flowing off the property and through Nine Mile Creek. New, eco-conscious practices are gaining ground but progress is slow and habits die hard.
4. For various reasons (making it easier to get the ball out of the stream?) managers mow grass to the edge of streams, which promotes erosion and sedimentation, which is absolutely the worst thing you can do for stream health and is also a serious ecological problem in this watershed. This is why riparian setbacks and plantings are required in most communities’ building codes (including ours, now) as non-structural Best Management Practices (BMPs) for stormwater management and water quality.
5. Finally, the infiltration rate of golf course turf is only slightly higher than that of concrete. Both absorb small amounts of precipitation but do not allow much infiltration. Frequent shallow watering makes shallow roots and hard subsoils. Period.

I wish it weren’t the case, and I know that many many golf course owners and clubs do their best to modernize their practices and to make their courses healthy pieces of the environment. But not enough are able to do so, either because of the additional expense or the American love of perfect turf.

]]> Comment on Oakwood Club to Oakwood Commons by Ignorance Is Biss http://janegoodman.com/wordpress/?p=83&cpage=1#comment-905 Ignorance Is Biss Fri, 14 Jan 2011 07:03:26 +0000 http://janegoodman.com/wordpress/?p=83#comment-905 Golf course space is almost as bad as a parking lot? I am never surprised at the ignorance in this world! Do you not realize that the men and women who manage golf courses are some of the most eco conscience managers of land out there. Maybe we should turn every golf course in the world into pavement and see how that works out! Educate yourself before you try to educate others. Golf course space is almost as bad as a parking lot? I am never surprised at the ignorance in this world! Do you not realize that the men and women who manage golf courses are some of the most eco conscience managers of land out there. Maybe we should turn every golf course in the world into pavement and see how that works out! Educate yourself before you try to educate others.

]]> Comment on Oakwood Club to Oakwood Commons by Cuyahoga County Planning Commission Weblog http://janegoodman.com/wordpress/?p=83&cpage=1#comment-902 Cuyahoga County Planning Commission Weblog Wed, 12 Jan 2011 07:03:00 +0000 http://janegoodman.com/wordpress/?p=83#comment-902 <strong>Oakwood Commons reactions...</strong> South Euclid City Council referred the proposed rezoning for the Oakwood Commons development to the City's Planning Commission. Residents at the City Council meeting expressed their objections to the proposed big box retail. Community Services Directo... Oakwood Commons reactions…

South Euclid City Council referred the proposed rezoning for the Oakwood Commons development to the City’s Planning Commission. Residents at the City Council meeting expressed their objections to the proposed big box retail. Community Services Directo…

]]> Comment on Recycling day by Jane http://janegoodman.com/wordpress/?p=42&cpage=1#comment-899 Jane Tue, 11 Jan 2011 22:03:53 +0000 http://janegoodman.com/wordpress/?p=42#comment-899 Thank you, Hank, I hope yours does, too. Thank you, Hank, I hope yours does, too.

]]> Comment on Recycling day by Hank Drake http://janegoodman.com/wordpress/?p=42&cpage=1#comment-898 Hank Drake Tue, 11 Jan 2011 20:11:06 +0000 http://janegoodman.com/wordpress/?p=42#comment-898 Baci is beautiful. I hope my dog lives as long as yours has. Baci is beautiful. I hope my dog lives as long as yours has.

]]> Comment on Oakwood Club to Oakwood Commons by Jane http://janegoodman.com/wordpress/?p=83&cpage=1#comment-894 Jane Mon, 10 Jan 2011 15:22:25 +0000 http://janegoodman.com/wordpress/?p=83#comment-894 Hank, I realized yesterday that much of what is driving my efforts to make the best out of a bad situation, most notably restoring the "back 20 acres," has to do with the fact that I was born in a house in Cleveland Heights that backs onto those acres of this property that would become our city's small natural area. Until I was five my sisters and I played back there, picking wildflowers and berries, and I think it's one reason I love nature so much. I'd like kids growing up there now to have that experience. Since we can only work with the land in our city, and the sale has limited our choices, and we really need new income sources and can't afford to take that land off the tax rolls, I hope that the folks who want the Cleveland Heights portion to become public park are successful for their portion. I would LOVE to have that in my neighborhood without having to pay for the privilege. Hank,
I realized yesterday that much of what is driving my efforts to make the best out of a bad situation, most notably restoring the “back 20 acres,” has to do with the fact that I was born in a house in Cleveland Heights that backs onto those acres of this property that would become our city’s small natural area. Until I was five my sisters and I played back there, picking wildflowers and berries, and I think it’s one reason I love nature so much. I’d like kids growing up there now to have that experience.

Since we can only work with the land in our city, and the sale has limited our choices, and we really need new income sources and can’t afford to take that land off the tax rolls, I hope that the folks who want the Cleveland Heights portion to become public park are successful for their portion. I would LOVE to have that in my neighborhood without having to pay for the privilege.

]]> Comment on Oakwood Club to Oakwood Commons by Hank Drake http://janegoodman.com/wordpress/?p=83&cpage=1#comment-893 Hank Drake Mon, 10 Jan 2011 14:51:37 +0000 http://janegoodman.com/wordpress/?p=83#comment-893 Jane, thanks for your cogent and comprehensive post. Over the past week, I have done a lot of soul searching. I hope you don't mind some comments on my part even though I live in Moe Romeo's ward. My parents moved to South Euclid in 1971. Wiggam's Farm was a short walk from our house. Everything we needed was a short drive: Richmond Mall, Hilltop Plaza, Chief's Car Wash (where they cleaned the inside of your car, not just the exterior). Great schools: Anderson, Memorial, and Brush. Who could ask for anything more? Maybe I am being overly nostalgic when I remember the old days, and viewing things with rose-tinted glasses. Because not everything was great. South Euclid was still pretty segregated then - if not in law, certainly in fact. And the Saturday stench of vehicles on Monticello, Green, and Mayfield Roads (leaded gas back then) gave me constant headaches that made me dread the weekend. In some ways, things are better today. In any case, after living elsewhere, I made the choice in 2008 to move back to South Euclid. The primary reasons were price/value of housing, and the convenience to work, retail, and culture. For location and convenience, South Euclid can't be beat. And allow me to be blunt: when I read comments at cleveland.com and elsewhere that disparage our community as going downhill and "ghetto", I think that says more about the commenter than the community. You have correctly pointed out that much of the local retail is, in fact, across the border in UH and CH. I believe that many people think regionally when shopping, and I certainly think of the area between Severance and Golden Gate as one big shopping district. So, many of us forget that all South Euclid has for retail are some corner strip malls, and Mayfield Road - which is certainly mixed in quality. As far as Oakwood in South Euclid is concerned - despite what others have said, this apprears to be a done deal. Ideally, I would have loved to see the entire area as a park - not mixed use like Quarry, Cain Park, or Forest Hills - just nature and trails. But given the choice between more residential in South Euclid and a bit more retail, I prefer the latter. First Interstate is certainly going to have their work cut out for them - filling retail space in an era of declining population and Internet shopping. If they can manage that without negatively impacting other local retail, good for them. It will be up to the government of South Euclid to make sure that First Interstate keeps any promises they make regarding LEED and green construction. As far as the Cleveland Heights portion, that's up to the people there to decide. But if there are people who want Oakwood in CH preserved as a park, they should step up to the plate with the necessary financing. Time is running out. Jane, thanks for your cogent and comprehensive post. Over the past week, I have done a lot of soul searching. I hope you don’t mind some comments on my part even though I live in Moe Romeo’s ward.

My parents moved to South Euclid in 1971. Wiggam’s Farm was a short walk from our house. Everything we needed was a short drive: Richmond Mall, Hilltop Plaza, Chief’s Car Wash (where they cleaned the inside of your car, not just the exterior). Great schools: Anderson, Memorial, and Brush. Who could ask for anything more?

Maybe I am being overly nostalgic when I remember the old days, and viewing things with rose-tinted glasses. Because not everything was great. South Euclid was still pretty segregated then – if not in law, certainly in fact. And the Saturday stench of vehicles on Monticello, Green, and Mayfield Roads (leaded gas back then) gave me constant headaches that made me dread the weekend. In some ways, things are better today.

In any case, after living elsewhere, I made the choice in 2008 to move back to South Euclid. The primary reasons were price/value of housing, and the convenience to work, retail, and culture. For location and convenience, South Euclid can’t be beat. And allow me to be blunt: when I read comments at cleveland.com and elsewhere that disparage our community as going downhill and “ghetto”, I think that says more about the commenter than the community.

You have correctly pointed out that much of the local retail is, in fact, across the border in UH and CH. I believe that many people think regionally when shopping, and I certainly think of the area between Severance and Golden Gate as one big shopping district. So, many of us forget that all South Euclid has for retail are some corner strip malls, and Mayfield Road – which is certainly mixed in quality.

As far as Oakwood in South Euclid is concerned – despite what others have said, this apprears to be a done deal. Ideally, I would have loved to see the entire area as a park – not mixed use like Quarry, Cain Park, or Forest Hills – just nature and trails. But given the choice between more residential in South Euclid and a bit more retail, I prefer the latter. First Interstate is certainly going to have their work cut out for them – filling retail space in an era of declining population and Internet shopping. If they can manage that without negatively impacting other local retail, good for them. It will be up to the government of South Euclid to make sure that First Interstate keeps any promises they make regarding LEED and green construction.

As far as the Cleveland Heights portion, that’s up to the people there to decide. But if there are people who want Oakwood in CH preserved as a park, they should step up to the plate with the necessary financing. Time is running out.

]]> Comment on Oakwood Club to Oakwood Commons by Jane http://janegoodman.com/wordpress/?p=83&cpage=1#comment-891 Jane Sun, 09 Jan 2011 18:20:14 +0000 http://janegoodman.com/wordpress/?p=83#comment-891 Susan, I'm chastened as I deserve to be. You're right, my choice of words was driven by frustration and emotion and I apologize. And yes, I am grateful to Dee and members of SNO who have been willing to hear and consider the circumstances in which we find ourselves relative to the economic landscape as well as the biological one. And to you, of course, for being a patient friend and counselor. So many of the issues that enter into this decision making process are, as you say, not common knowledge, and as an educator I really should have done a better job of explaining them. I'll try to be better. Yes, I hope this situation serves a larger cause, to get communities working on a watershed basis and a regional one. I think this is an important role that the new county government needs to play, as convener of these discussions. Since South Euclid is the city whose residents' dollars all go to neighboring cities, whether it's spent on shoes at Macy's (UH) or a refrigerator at Home Depot (CH), it would be like a homeless person knocking on the rich guy's door asking him to discuss sharing some of his wealth. So it would be great if Julian Rogers and Sunny Simon convened a discussion among the two district's communities. Thanks and be well, Jane Susan, I’m chastened as I deserve to be. You’re right, my choice of words was driven by frustration and emotion and I apologize.
And yes, I am grateful to Dee and members of SNO who have been willing to hear and consider the circumstances in which we find ourselves relative to the economic landscape as well as the biological one. And to you, of course, for being a patient friend and counselor.

So many of the issues that enter into this decision making process are, as you say, not common knowledge, and as an educator I really should have done a better job of explaining them. I’ll try to be better.

Yes, I hope this situation serves a larger cause, to get communities working on a watershed basis and a regional one. I think this is an important role that the new county government needs to play, as convener of these discussions. Since South Euclid is the city whose residents’ dollars all go to neighboring cities, whether it’s spent on shoes at Macy’s (UH) or a refrigerator at Home Depot (CH), it would be like a homeless person knocking on the rich guy’s door asking him to discuss sharing some of his wealth. So it would be great if Julian Rogers and Sunny Simon convened a discussion among the two district’s communities.

Thanks and be well,
Jane

]]> Comment on Oakwood Club to Oakwood Commons by Susan Miller http://janegoodman.com/wordpress/?p=83&cpage=1#comment-890 Susan Miller Sun, 09 Jan 2011 17:46:59 +0000 http://janegoodman.com/wordpress/?p=83#comment-890 "I invite thoughtful comments to this post. If you just want to repeat the “it should be a park” or “we don’t need more retail” arguments, please save your time and breath." "save your breath"? Jane - I find this tone inappropriate. It doesn't exactly invite. You invite in one sentence and rescind it in the next. You're invited, but not if you disagree with me. Is that it? Then to Dee - "Have a good day, and thanks again for asking and getting involved in the discussion. It’s more than most have done." "it's more than most have done"? Really? I think the members of Severance Neighborhood Organization would find that remark offensive. May I please request a buffer of civility as we move forward in this discussion? Might I also suggest that we broaden the discussion to a regional level and a watershed/subwatershed level? And, could we please eat this "cow" one bite at a time? It is my opinion that the business owners/residents/taxpayers/voters deserve to better understand all the issues facing our community for the long term. We may need to slow down, back up and zoom out for a bit, so that we level the playing field between those of us with information and those like me who are still running to catch up. “I invite thoughtful comments to this post. If you just want to repeat the “it should be a park” or “we don’t need more retail” arguments, please save your time and breath.”

“save your breath”? Jane – I find this tone inappropriate. It doesn’t exactly invite. You invite in one sentence and rescind it in the next. You’re invited, but not if you disagree with me. Is that it?

Then to Dee – “Have a good day, and thanks again for asking and getting involved in the discussion. It’s more than most have done.”

“it’s more than most have done”? Really? I think the members of Severance Neighborhood Organization would find that remark offensive.

May I please request a buffer of civility as we move forward in this discussion?

Might I also suggest that we broaden the discussion to a regional level and a watershed/subwatershed level?

And, could we please eat this “cow” one bite at a time? It is my opinion that the business owners/residents/taxpayers/voters deserve to better understand all the issues facing our community for the long term. We may need to slow down, back up and zoom out for a bit, so that we level the playing field between those of us with information and those like me who are still running to catch up.

]]> Comment on Oakwood Club to Oakwood Commons by Dee Shedlow http://janegoodman.com/wordpress/?p=83&cpage=1#comment-889 Dee Shedlow Sun, 09 Jan 2011 15:21:39 +0000 http://janegoodman.com/wordpress/?p=83#comment-889 Jane - Thanks for your reply. You've certainly given me food for thought. I, like you, wish I had the necessary resources required to purchase the property, remove the golf course, and restore the land with native plantings, etc. Unfortunately, I don't. I understand the pragmatic nature of your support for this project, and am grateful you answered my questions. I have linked to your blog post on my facebook page (having previously linked to the letter regarding Legacy Village). I hope we generate some discussion. Dee Jane -

Thanks for your reply. You’ve certainly given me food for thought. I, like you, wish I had the necessary resources required to purchase the property, remove the golf course, and restore the land with native plantings, etc. Unfortunately, I don’t. I understand the pragmatic nature of your support for this project, and am grateful you answered my questions. I have linked to your blog post on my facebook page (having previously linked to the letter regarding Legacy Village). I hope we generate some discussion.

Dee

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